Wrong / correct

Wrong / correct
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Wrong / correct
Message from mohammad51 posted on 14-02-2018 at 20:12:42 (D | E | F)
Hello
Please, is this sentence correct or wrong?
The father was very old and weak and dropped food on his shirt and trousers while he ate.
Thanks for any reply

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Edited by lucile83 on 14-02-2018 22:52

Re: Wrong / correct from remche, posted on 14-02-2018 at 21:15:06 (D | E)
Hello,
You need to use a progressive/continuous form in the last bit of your sentence. A progressive form (was/Were + ing) is needed when you want to talk about an action in progress in the past or about two or more parallel actions.
Ex: He was reading when she came. I was reading while he was watching TV.
Best regards,
Rémi

Re: Wrong / correct from gerondif, posted on 15-02-2018 at 00:42:17 (D | E)
Hello,
You could also write it this way:
The father was very old and weak and would drop food on his shirt and trousers whenever he ate/ whenever he had lunch.
I think that in your sentence, the repetition is what you aim at, not the duration that while implies.

Re: Wrong / correct from dsmith, posted on 15-02-2018 at 06:24:40 (D | E)
Hello,
Your sentence is correct. But it is a bit awkward with the repetition of "and"

Re: Wrong / correct from mohammad51, posted on 15-02-2018 at 11:42:56 (D | E)
Hello
Thank you all too much
The father was very old and weak and dropped food on his shirt and trousers while he ate. ( the question sentence)
What would you say?
I would rephrase it as:
1- As the father was very old and weak, he dropped food on his clothes while was eating.
2- As the father was very old and weak, he dropped food on his clothes when he ate.
3- The father was very old and weak. He dropped food on his clothes whenever he ate.
I think the correction of gerondif is good here by using whenever.

gerondif sentence:
The father was very old and weak and would drop food on his shirt and trousers whenever he ate/ whenever he had lunch.
My question again is the using of ( past simple) after while in the origin sentence correct or incorrect?
Can be or can be not?

Re: Wrong / correct from gerondif, posted on 15-02-2018 at 12:38:13 (D | E)
Hello
For me, while he "ate" is akward because while implies that you insist on the length of time, something happened while something else was taking place.
I stole her money while she was doing the washing-up.
So, in British English, you should say:
As the(my, his..) father was very old and weak, he dropped food on his clothes while he was eating. But I think while is a poor choice because in fact, you don't mean to describe that it was between a certain time bracket that the action was taking place, it just happened whenever he sat down at the breakfast table, so in my opinion, you shouldn't use while.

His father, who had Alzheimer's disease, choked to death while he was having dinner. OK, his death occurred in the middle of that time bracket.
But in your sentence, when or whenever or everytime would convey your meaning.
His father was very old and weak and dropped food on his shirt and trousers when he ate, whenever he ate, everytime he ate.
No sooner had he sat down at the lunch-table that he would start dropping food all over the place.

Now, can the simple preterite be used after while ?
Yes, if you don't insist on a short action taking place while a longer one is happening.
When we went camping, I would pitch up the tent while she prepared the dinner. We both have our separate routines and both take place simultaneously.
Or it can happen that you don't wish to insist on the duration aspect, and you use while instead of when.
I usually watched tv while she cooked. While almost means whereas in this context.
I usually watched tv from seven to eight. In the meantime, she would cook dinner.

Ds smith says your sentence is correct because in the USA, there is less sensitivity on the use of the simple preterite or of the ing form.

Another aspect of your problem: when/whenever/everytime + ing mean during the whole time bracket :
He dropped food all over the place when he was at the breakfast table, when he was having lunch, whenever he was having lunch, everytime he was having lunch.
When/whenever/everytime + simple preterite insists more on the occurrence or the repetition :
He dropped food all over the place when he was at the breakfast table, when he had lunch, whenever he had lunch, everytime he had lunch.
So here, you can afford to have the choice.

While + ing in my opinion means more at a certain time during that time bracket, but not forcibly during all of it.
He dropped food while he was having dinner could mean that, in the middle of the meal, he dropped food on the floor to feed the dog discreetly. His action took ten seconds, the meal 30 minutes...

Re: Wrong / correct from dsmith, posted on 15-02-2018 at 21:17:39 (D | E)
Hello,
The progressive -ing form is often used after while, but there is no rule that requires it in all cases that I'm aware of. There are many verbs that inherently imply something happening over time.
The dog barked while I ate.
or The dog barked while I was eating.
The house burned down while I drove to work.
The house burned down while I was driving to work.
These mean the same thing and are both correct. I have seen grammar sites that recommend it as a way to simplify their teaching but even in British English I would be surprised they consider it a rule. But I have been surprised before!

Re: Wrong / correct from gerondif, posted on 15-02-2018 at 22:17:48 (D | E)
Hello!
The dog barked while I ate. I see the two actions as complete
or The dog barked while I was eating. The barking seems to me shorter than the whole meal. Otherwise, I would have said: The dog barked throughout the meal /the dog kept barking while I was eating.
But both are correct.
I hope we'll hear from mohammad51 about this before his next topic .
A few days later : I wish we would hear from him before his next topic.
Today, Feb 26 th, I wish we had heard from him before his new topic that just cropped up...

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